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The Truth about Hydrogen

The Truth about Hydrogen


This episode of Real Engineering is brought
to you by Skillshare, home to over twenty thousand classes that could teach you a new
life skill. As the world grapples to eliminate fossil
fuels from our energy diet, electric cars have seen an incredible boom over the past
few years. Last year, over one million electric cars
were sold around the world. The number of Nissan Leafs, Teslas, and other
electric vehicles in circulation worldwide is now more than three million. And while there are many brands of electric
car to choose from, there are only two choices when it comes to powering electric vehicles:
fuel cells or batteries. Both produce electricity to drive electric
motors, eliminating the pollution and inefficiencies of the fossil fuel powered internal combustion
engine. Both hydrogen and electricity for batteries
can be produced from low­ or zero ­carbon sources, including renewable energy like solar
and wind, and therefore both are being pursued by car manufacturers and researchers as the
possible future of electric vehicles. However, a great debate is being waged by
supporters of each technology. Elon Musk has called hydrogen fuel cell technology
“incredibly dumb,” claiming they’re more of a marketing ploy for automakers than
a long-term solution. In contrast, Japan has announced its intention
to become the world’s first hydrogen society, with the Japanese government and the auto
industry working together to introduce 160 hydrogen stations and 40,000 fuel-cell vehicles
by March 2021. So which is actually better? At first glance, hydrogen seems like an extremely
clever way to power a car. Compressed hydrogen has a specific energy
(aka energy per unit mass) of neary 40,000 watt hours per kilogram. Lithium ion batteries at best have a specific
energy of just 278 wh/kg, but most fall around 167 wh / kg. That’s 236 times as much energy per kg for
hydrogen. And because of its energy density and lightweight
nature, compressed hydrogen and fuel cells can power cars for extended ranges without
adding much weight, which as we saw in our last video is a gigantic road block for incorporating
the technology into the aviation industry. The designers of electric vehicles are caught
in a catch 22 with energy density and range. Each extra kilogram of battery weight to increase
range requires extra structural weight, heavier brakes, a higher torque motor, and in turn
more batteries to carry around this extra mass, This weight compounding limits how far
a battery powered vehicle can travel, until new technology can help reduce the weight
of the batteries. For hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, this weight
compounding is not an issue. Additionally, a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle
can be refueled in under 5 minutes, where a battery powered electric vehicle, like the
Tesla model S, takes over 3 hours to fully recharge. When looking at the range and refuel times
hydrogen can offer, you can see why some car manufacturers are investing in this technology. On the face of it. Hydrogen is a clear winner, but it falls behind
when we start considering the end-to-end production process. While both batteries and hydrogen fuel cells
are both forms of electricity storage, the cost differ drastically. Fully charging a Tesla Model 3 with a 75 kiloWatt
hour battery, costs between 10-12 dollars depending where you live. With a rated range of 500 kilometers, that’s
between 2 and 2.4 cent per kilometer. A great price. In a previous video, I visited a petrol station
that introduced a hydrogen pump, fed by its own on-site production facility. which used off-peak electricity to produce
hydrogen. The hydrogen from this station cost $85 dollars
to fill the 5 kg tank of the Toyota Mirais on site, which had a range of 480 kms. That’s 17.7 cent per kilometer, 8 times
the price. And here lies the problem, Hydrogen simply
requires more energy to produce. To understand the economic viability of hydrogen
let’s dig deeper into the production process. Before any hydrogen vehicle can hit the road,
you first need to produce the hydrogen, but hydrogen is not a readily available energy
source. Even though hydrogen is the most abundant
element in the universe, it is usually stored in water, hydrocarbons, such as methane, and
other organic matter. One of the challenges of using hydrogen as
an energy storage mechanism comes from being able to efficiently extract it from these
compounds. In the US, the majority of hydrogen is produced
through a process called steam reforming. Steam reforming is the process of combining
high-temperature steam with natural gas to extract hydrogen. While steam reforming is the most common method
of industrial hydrogen production, it requires a good deal of heat and is wildly inefficient. Hydrogen produced by steam reforming actually
has less energy than the natural gas that the steam reforming began with. And while hydrogen fuel cells themselves don’t
produce pollution, this process does. So if we want to assume a future scenario
with as little carbon emission as possible, this method won’t cut it. Another method to produce hydrogen is electrolysis
– separating the hydrogen out of water using an electric current. While the electricity needed for this process
can be provided from renewable sources, it requires even more energy input than steam
reforming. You end up losing 30% of the energy from the
original energy put in from the renewables when you carry out electrolysis. So we are sitting at 70% energy efficiency
from hydrogen fuel cells if traditional electrolysis is used, before the car even starts its engine. A slightly more efficient method of producing
hydrogen is polymer exchange membrane electrolysis. Using this method, energy efficiencies can
reach up to 80%, with the added benefit of being produced on site, which we will get
to in a moment. But this is still a 20% loss of energy from
the original electricity from the renewables. Some experts say the efficiency of PEM electrolysis
is expected to reach 82-86% before 2030, which is a great improvement, but still well short
of batteries charging efficiency at 99%. [1] A 19% difference in production costs doesn’t
explain the difference in costs yet, so where else are we losing energy. The next hurdle in getting hydrogen fuel cell
vehicles on the road is the transport and storage of the pure hydrogen. If we assume the hydrogen is produced on site,
like it was for this petrol station, then we eliminate one energy sink, but the cost
of storage is just as problematic. Hydrogen is extremely low density as a gas
and liquid, and so in order to achieve adequate energy density, we have to increase its actual
density. We can do this in two ways. We can compress the hydrogen to 790 times
atmospheric pressure, but that takes energy, about 13% of the total energy content of the
hydrogen itself. Alternatively we can turn hydrogen into liquid,
cryogenically. The advantage of hydrogen liquefaction is
that a cryogenic hydrogen tank is much lighter than a tank that can hold pressurized hydrogen. But again, hydrogen’s physical properties
means hydrogen is harder to liquefy than any other gas except helium. Hydrogen is liquified by reducing its temperature
to -253°C, with an efficiency loss of 40%, once you factor in the added weight of the
refrigerators and the refrigeration itself. So pressurisation is a better option at a
13% energy loss. Once the hydrogen is produced and compressed
to a liquid or gas, a viable hydrogen infrastructure requires that hydrogen be able to be delivered
from where it’s produced to the point of end-use, such as a vehicle refueling station. Where the hydrogen is produced can have a
big impact on the cost and best method of delivery. For example, a large, centrally located hydrogen
production facility can produce hydrogen at a lower cost because it is producing more,
but it costs more to deliver the hydrogen because the point of use is farther away. In comparison, distributed production facilities
produce hydrogen on site so delivery costs are relatively low, but the cost to produce
the hydrogen is likely to be higher because production volumes are less. While there are some small-scale, on-site
hydrogen production facilities being installed at refuelling pumps, such as the station mentioned
in the last hydrogen video. until this infrastructure is widespread, we
have to assume that the majority of hydrogen is being transported by truck or pipeline,
where we know that energy losses can range from 10% up to 40%. In comparison, assuming that the electricity
that we use for charging the batteries comes completely from renewable resources (like
solar or wind), we just have to consider the transmission losses in the grid. Using the United States grid as a reference
for typical grid losses, the average loss is only 5%. So in the best case scenario for hydrogen,
using the most efficient means of production and transport, we lose 20% of energy during
PEM electrolysis, and around 13% for compression and storage, amounting to a 33% loss. In other systems, this could be as much as
56%. For battery power, up to this point, we have
lost just 6% to the grid and recharging. Bringing our best case efficiency difference
to 27% and our worst case to 50%. The next stage of powering electric vehicles
is what is called the tank to wheel conversion efficiency. For hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, once the
hydrogen is in the tank, it must be re-converted into electric power. This is done via a fuel cell, which essentially
works like a PEM electrolyser, but in reverse. In a PEM fuel cell, hydrogen gas flows through
channels to the anode, where a catalyst causes the hydrogen molecules to separate into protons
and electrons. Once again the membrane only allows protons
to pass through it, while electrons flow through an external circuit to the cathode.This flow
of electrons is the electricity that is used to power the vehicles electric motors. If the fuel cell is powered with pure hydrogen,
it has the potential to be up to around 60% efficient, with most of the wasted energy
lost to heat. Like hydrogen fuel cells, batteries also come
with inefficiencies and energy losses. The grid provides AC current while the batteries
store the charge in DC. So to convert AC to DC, we need a charger. Using the Tesla Model S as an example, its
peak charger efficiency is around 92%. The Tesla model S runs on AC motors; therefore,
to convert the DC current supplied by the batteries into AC current, an inverter has
to be used with an efficiency of roughly 90%. Additionally, lithium ion batteries can lose
energy due to leakage. A good estimate for the charging efficiency
of a lithium ion battery is 90%. All of these factors combined lead to a total
efficiency of around 75%. However, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles also
have some of these same inefficiencies. Any kind of electrolysis requires DC current,
and therefore, a rectifier will be required to convert the AC current from the grid to
DC. The conversion efficiency here is 92%. We also need to convert the DC current produced
by the fuel cell to AC to power the motor through an inverter with an efficiency of
90%. Finally, the efficiency of the motor must
be considered for both fuel cell and battery powered vehicles. Currently, this is around 90-95% for both
of them, which is amazing when you consider that internal combustion engines running on
petrol have an efficiency of only around 20-30%. If we add up all these inefficiencies and
compare current generation batteries, to the best and worst case scenario of current gen
hydrogen. We can see how they measure up. Even with the BEST case scenario. Not taking into account any transport due
to onsite production, and assuming very high electrolysis efficiency of 80%, and assuming
a HIGH fuel cell efficiency of 80%, hydrogen still comes out at less than half the efficiency. The worst case scenario is even worse off. So while you may be able to go further on
one fill-up of hydrogen in your fuel cell vehicle over a battery powered electric vehicle,
the cost that is needed to deliver that one fill up would be astronomically higher compared
to charging batteries due to these energy losses and efficiencies. Based on our worst case scenario, we would
expect the cost per kilometre to be about 3.5 times greater for hydrogen, but as we
saw earlier it’s actual 8 times the price. So additional costs of production unrelated
to efficiencies are obviously at play. The cost of construction of the facility is
one and the profit the station will take from sale is another. For now, these inefficiencies and costs are
driving the market, where most investment and research is going into battery powered
electric vehicles. So which wins? Both are equally more green than internal
combustion engines, assuming equal renewable resources are used to power them. Fuel cells allow for fast fill up times and
long ranges; a big advantage. But battery powered vehicles might catch up
in range by the time there are enough hydrogen stations to ever make fuel cell vehicles viable. While fuel cells are efficient relative to
combustion engines, they are not as efficient as batteries. They may make more sense for operation disconnected
from the grid or as we saw in our last video using hydrogen for planes actually could make
a lot of sense, but once again that’s a topic for another video. For now, battery powered electric vehicles
seem to be the sensible choice going forward in the quest for pollution free consumer transport. As battery-powered cars become more common,
we’re also starting to see self-driving cars become the norm. If the job of driver is slowly automated away
and consumers have a bunch of free time to read or watch online video, it may be wise
to use that opportunity to start learning new skills and Skillshare is great place to
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and I felt the blueprints strength was that it was easily recognisable as mine, but they
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strengths of blueprint design and build on its weaknesses and we can up with this transitioning
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skill to gain. As usual thanks for watching and thank you
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links to my twitter, facebook, discord server, subreddit and instagram pages are below. I’m about to do a Q&A on the subject matter
of this video on my instagram stories, so if you are interested in having some questions
answered the link for that is belo

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100 thoughts on “The Truth about Hydrogen

  1. This research if applied would put hydrogen vehicles in front of EVs, in terms of fuel costs, https://phys.org/news/2019-08-scientists-hydrogen-gas-oil-bitumen.html . Also it is not really fair to compare the two after one has been invested in to lower costs for a few years now.

  2. Use nuclear energy in electrolysis process to produce hydrogen, simple. Main idea is to stop global warming by eliminating fossil fuel use and producing oxygen at the same time.

  3. We need better batteries! Carbon nanotubes or even better gold nanotubes unfortunately they are really expensive & difficult to produce & supply is limited

  4. You have completely ignored the the embodied energy in manufacturing the batteries and the manufacturing of batteries is not green so your statement that they are equally green is false

  5. Lithium battery technology is not scalable for every vehicle in this world. Hydrogen technology might be if people would give it a chance by supporting this technology. Nowadays lithium industry is almost under China monopoly. Hydrogen fuel cell on the other hand uses some rare materials(Pt) but there is room for improvement and is theoretically possible. Lithium battery energy density has almost reach its theoretical max value hance lithium is dead end along the fact that there is not enought Lithium on this planet to power every vehicle. Hydrogen on the other hand can power trucks, trailers, tractors and even airplanes.

  6. A Tesla S with a 2 to 2,4 c/km filling cost is a feat of engineering. With 3 or more seats occupied, it is more efficient than a high speed train. Unfortunately, these numbers are only a tiny part of the picture. With a three year/10 000 miles leasing cost of about 67 c/km, annual property tax above 4% in my CT town, and expensive insurance, the Tesla doesn't make sense anymore.

  7. I believe there's a technology that's been developed (not public) which uses salt water in the process of extracting hydrogen. Something like a 90%+ efficiency rate in comparison to the current methods. The company is private and are still improving their methods, but a little bird tells me it's getting better.
    Take this with a grain of salt as I cannot confirm.

  8. 18% of U.S. electricity is from renewables. If you compare against that presumption, why not make the same dreamy presumptions for the H ..? Still; my vote is NUCLEAR

  9. how is the influence of the vehicle materials recyclability at the end of its service? or the energy manufacturing facility of the same?

  10. But there is one major problem with electric cars, though the car in itself using a battery may be more green then an internal combustion engine. Where would that electricity come from? The power grid. Increasing the amount of electric cars would increase the demand for electricity. How is that electricity generated? Having dinosaur (fossil) fuel power plants working at a higher rate to supply the increased demand would only shift the pollution up stream to the companies generating the electricity rather then eliminating or reducing it.

  11. So you didn't even mention the dangers of hydrogen. Mixed with air it is highly explosive even in small amounts. Other than that a good video.

  12. You forgot to take driving efficiencies into account, hydrogen vehicles should be more efficient since they are lighter… Right?

  13. I know the main Hydrogen tank needs time to repressurise after every filling. So how many Fuel Cell vehicles can a station serve in a 1hr period? 4?

  14. Station costs need to be looked at too.
    Stations that use hydrogen delivered as a gas have an average storage of 180 kg/day and an estimated the total cost of $2 million, which includes equipment, design, construction, and commissioning.
    https://h2stationmaps.Com/costs-and-financing

    The cost of a single port EVSE unit ranges from $300-$1,500 for Level 1, $400-$6,500 for Level 2, and $10,000-$40,000 for DC fast charging. Installation costs vary greatly from site to site with a ballpark cost range of $0-$3,000 for Level 1, $600- $12,700 for Level 2, and $4,000-$51,000 for DC fast charging.
    https://energy.Gov/eere/vehicles/workplace-charging-equipment-costs

    With DC fast charging stations, you can add multiple chargers to significantly lower the average cost, that's something you can't do with Hydrogen.

  15. Honestly I’m a fan of Hydrogen, while it may have many problems the same can be said for the other options as well, cutting out Pollution completely is very unlikely, we need to focus more on minimizing it to the point where our planet can fight back

  16. This is a great video but to my experience there are two factors missing in the comparison. Batteries effectiveness and lifetime are both temperature sensitive which means TCO over a longer period should be taken into the equasion and calculated into the efficiency loss. Both factors are less variable with Hydrogen Fuel cells. Hydrogen production is great for energy storage in periods of overproduction of electricity. In Europe there have been peak Electricity production periods when the electricity price was negative. This has lead to users (Industrial) being paid to use electricity. The production of Hydrogen could capture and buffer these peaks to validate the over production and help buffer electricity prices in both directions. As investments in solar and wind energy continue, more electricity production peaks are to be expected which will have a positive effect on the Hydrogen production and availability.

  17. Real engineering , you should do a video on how the CSIRO has had a polymer exchange breakthrough in more efficient hydrogen production and transporting hydrogen as ammonia rather than gas.

  18. Your also forgetting that electric motors wear out as well, batteries wear out or undergo chemical changes needing complete replacement no repair option. Wiring insulation breaks down and steel rusts too so electric cars arent anything spectacular either.

  19. Here's the solution for the future: Thorium salt reactors for energy, hydrogen for cars, produced off peak and with solar cells and other renewable energy sources.

    You're welcome.

  20. An extremely deceiving video, entirely on the side of the battery lobby, What about the environmental cost of mining lithium, what about battery life time, replacement and recycling. On overall blinding us with percentages doesn't make it truthful.

  21. nice and very interesting video. But lacks to take into account the Li-ion battery cost, energy spent on their production and lifespan, as they need to be replaced after some time. Could you please revise the video in order to take account for these variables? thanks in advance.

  22. Great to see a fellow Irishman making some quality content rather than just uploading videos of fights on the Luas or lads wrecking something. Fair play, slick presentation and good research 👍🏻🇮🇪 Subscribed

  23. Hydrogen is dirty to produce,and lithium batteries ditto,and are incredibly expensive to replace.Hydrogen is extremely flameable,dangerous to handle and transport.

  24. Argentina has more than 50% of cars having their gas tanks replaced by LNG cylinders? do they know something we don´t?

  25. You fail to account for all the energy of the finding the location, land appropriation and mining and processing of lithium for the batteries and then – all the fuel those machines use (mining and fabrication) in doing that. Plus what about all the waste of the lithium batteries when they're all spent? Hydrogen has a smaller overall 'creation' footprint although possibly, yes… less efficient at this current time.

  26. Too bad manufacturers don't take LNG and Propane seriously.
    Had the whole industry changed… we'd not be digging new mines worldwide.
    Oh wait,…. that's China.

  27. BOOM, your views of hydrogen production may need to be reviewed.
    https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/video/power-shift-canadian-technology-extracts-hydrogen-from-oil-without-pollution~1776608

  28. at time 4:49 the explanation of hydrogen fuel CHANGES: 1st it was shown that producing hydrogen was also polluting; then NON-polluting techniques were shown. Bur the non-polluting techniques were "costly" .
    IF the goal is to produce at lowest cost then hydrogen is a LOSER ! too expensive.
    IF the goal is to eliminate the pollution caused by fossil fuels coal, oil , natural gas: co$tly hydrogen is the SOLUTION.

  29. It's currently cheaper to own/operate an electric car rather than own/operate a hydrogen car ONLY because we already invested trillions of dollars into CREATING that efficiency. If we did that for hydrogen, we would have DRASTICALLY cleaner cars AND POWERPLANTS that create electricity… we save the eco system with cleaner cars that won't have horribly polluting depleted batteries to store/recycle and our power plants could be turned to run on hydrogen, which has H20 as a by-product, instead of eco destroying coal & nuclear plants.

  30. As with petroleum we are putting all our eggs in electricity, what is plan B, daily in our lives, we are growing not only the use of electric duty our dependency . We have seen and others have experienced a major power cut, depending where you are the effects are minor to chaos. We need a second form of energy, you hear very little about the use of bacteria as an energy supply.

  31. would it be possible to post the links to articles etc you used in this video? I am doing a project concerning hydrogen so the links to where you found information could be really helpfull. thanks a lot in advance

  32. An obvious next step technology is efficient form of electrolysis that occurs right insude our cars. We pump filtered water or sea water into our car and it goes. This idea of running things with water/sea water is our next tech step to work on. Not massive battery building like Elon is proposing.

  33. So electric cars are actually the best solution for less pollution. Now we only need to learn how to make a very light weight, very resistant and still be very malleable material to make cars.
    Only thing we need is a new element that has the property i listed.

  34. ..See BMW i Hydrogen Next…if Toyota and other Japanese are developing Hydrogen, I bet that this will be the future (once again American will loose the game)

  35. Hello Brian, I was told recently that hydrogen fuel cells are the best option for the storage of renewable energy and could perform a similar function to that of the Tesla battery farm in South Australia (storage of renewable energy for cities) but I thought that inefficiencies and cost disparities mentioned in your video would apply to this use case as well. Has there been recent breakthroughs in hydrogen technology to make this viable? Perhaps a video idea?

  36. The only to make hydrogen cost-effective is to produce hydrogen with molten salt reactors at $0.02 to $0.03 per kilowatt-hour.

  37. One billion vehicles on the road world wide, three million alternate fuel vehicles on the road, what’s that? 0.03 percent.

  38. one h2 producing panel can produce 250 liter per day, almost for free, 40 panels is enough to provide a home with warmth and energy, and powers a car a year long. https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2019/02/24/belgische-wetenschappers-kraken-de-code-voor-betaalbare-groene-w/?fbclid=IwAR1gbBZnxe_XI5C347FU8s5kkz3kS0jRd9pfOnSWHwlmNWcYkn6B9MPkE4Y

  39. elon musk perpetual series of failures, hope he doesnt run out of money before
    something succeeds so they dont bury him under the junk yard of teslas, not surprised
    he doesnt want hydrogen competition just when he finally might have a good enough battery
    rather have hydrogen any day myself…truth hurts

  40. You are acting like today is what will be tomorrow. Both have a positive future but Electric vehicles have benefited more from research dollars during the Obama years when hydrogen trailed behind.

  41. You stupid gnome, hydrogen price now is very low and it will be lower. It is CLEANER energy, no child labor, no poisoning nature by heavy metals and in the end it will be CHEAPER. Or you think Japan is stupid?

  42. think you could call us something a little different than "consumers" you engineering douche bag. WE ARE PEOPLE. THE HUMAN POPULATION. JUST LIKE YOU. AND EVERYONE ELSE

  43. Does the hydrogen cars needs the same raw material to produce ? Maybe Japan invests in hydrogen to not be dependent of other countries ressources.

  44. It so funny how Tesla haven’t explain how batteries are made from, I think batteries are more polluted then gas because of all the chemicals that use to make it, but no one talk about it

  45. I mean, why not both in a new age hybrid system? Have a medium to short range LiOn battery for commuting (say maybe 40-60 mile range) that can be charged off of A/C grid power. Then also having a hydrogen tank with a fuel cell for longer range trips. Ideally, for everyday use around town you only use your battery and charge it every night. However, you have hydrogen in the tank ready to go should you need to drive further than your short battery range. Seems to me to get the best of both worlds. You could refuel in a jiffy should you need to, but for everyday non road trip scenarios you can get by on a small LiOn battery. The only problems I see would be long term storage of hydrogen in the vehicle itself and space/weight for all of this. However, we essentially managed the packaging problem with today's plug in hybrid which have more complexity, weight, and space requirements than the system described above.

  46. Don't forget that Hydrogen is highly explosive so you need good security and solid construction on each filling station. If not you will have Hindenburgs all over the place.

  47. Hydrogen is energy dense but production of Hydrogen leaves 70 percent carbondioxide. This is not good. Finding different battery sources are required suck as graphene, it should be cheap and reliable.

  48. Why bother losing energy charging batteries with hydrogen when it is combustible like gasoline. Use it to combust cylinders the same way and get more power and immediacy. Yes hydrogen is explosive but so is gasoline. If I'm gonna go out in an explosion I would rather it be quick and over with and not burn to death in gasoline. Ha ha ha

  49. You assume that hydrogen is produced on industrial sites then compressed then transported to gas stations which is a waste of energy. Hydrogen can directly be produced and stored in every gas station thanks to electrolizers directly connected to the grid with green electricity contracts. We must keep in mind that green electricity from wind and solar is often wasted when the electricity grid is saturated. This excess electricity can be stored in hydrogen form at very low price instead of beeing freely wasted.

  50. …why would you say that FUEL CELL (DC) must be converted to (AC) for the motor(s)?? The opposite is rather the case, being DC motors the preferred E-engine type, which by the way, also regenerates some of its braking back into … charging DC from those motors (acting as brakes) into the batteries.

  51. Water = oxygen / hydrogen. We are at a new age. Pour billions of money to research how to mass produce hydrogen from water seperation is not impossible.

  52. Hydrogen is incrediblely dangerous. For the environment. The byproduct of hydrogen cars is water. Pure. Clean water. The earth is a closed biosphere. Let's add tons and tons of water to that. You think we have storms now just wait. It will raise ocean levels and destroy delicate desert environments. Case in point. The proliferation of air conditioning units, swimming pools and lawn watering in Phoenix raised the humidity level to a point that began to degrade the desert environment. Imagine Los Angeles with millions of water spewing cars. Did I mention that the most abundant greenhouse gas is water vapor? Yeah lets add tons more.

  53. All your arguments are wrong. Humans don't fucking care amount effeciancy if we can produce electricity for shit.

    Wireless charging has 60 percent and everyone uses it. :O

  54. wow. if we focused on making electricity from petrol at 90% efficiency, we'd be able to use existing petrol infrastructure and get vehicles with massive range.

  55. We don't care to loose 30% of the energy provided by the sun or the wind – to produce hydrogen. We can still get more energy from that sources that we need. Ecology is vital.

  56. So there's no mention of the car having its own Hydrogen production or HHO Generator. Why are we stuck with the idea that we have to go to someone or a third party to fill/charge our vehicles. If the vehicle produced the Hydrogen as it needed it then there is no need for Fill/Charge stations, or big heavy pressurized tanks. The HHO Generator would run off the 12V or 24V system the car or truck has and the output of Hydrogen would be regulated by the rpm of the engine. either running off the alternator or Power Regulator designated for the HHO generator. There is a little more in depth to this process but for simplicity measures.
    The beauty of this is that to fill up you would just put water, simple H2O in the reservoir. It would be ideal to put in distilled water with electrolytes but clean potable water would work.
    Eventually the plates in the HHO generator will need to be replaced but it could be designed in a way that the plates or generator can be changed out as simple as an oil change, and these "modules" could be mass produced by simple labor workers. Drain the water from the generator, open reservoir, disconnect the positive and negative terminals, remove the Module, replace with new one, reconnect the terminals close reservoir, and refill with water.
    If you wanted to get fancy you could add a second reservoir that would release small amounts of electrolytes and an inline filter in case there are any impurities in the water but even that wouldn't be heavy modifications. You could also install a small tank with a shut off valve so if you did run out of water on a trip you could switch to a pressurized Hydrogen tank and get to some water.
    That is just my 2 cents on it, thanks for your time!!

  57. There is zero efficiency for a concept that is destroying earth and wont be living for long, not a quarter as long as petrol cars. Just because there are even NOW no ressources left to build these types of "Akkus". It`s already done guys, dont compare dead topics, neither Litium-Ion nor HYDROGEN is efficient. What it needs is a new way to produce and store electricity, that`s what it needs ever since, thats why people like Nikola Tesla were here and invented solutions in the early 1900hrds….

  58. all very good information and well researched. . but, what is a life expectancy of a battery ( amount of charge cycles/time/expected life span) and the cost of replacement and manufacturing of these batteries and the environmental impact vs the a hydrogen cell?

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